In most episodes, I interview an author of nonfiction history about their research and writing process, but in today’s episode we get to do something a little different. We’re taking a closer look at how authors and presses get the word out about new books. And we’re going to do that with an insider’s perspective. I’m very excited to be joined in this episode by Sonya Bonczek, the director of publicity and communications for University of North Carolina Press.
I have exchanged many emails with Sonya over the past few years whenever I've had podcast guests who publish with UNC Press, and I’ve been impressed at the great publicity work that Sonya and her team are doing. So when I thought about who might be able to bring us a publicist’s perspective, she was first on my list. I was eager to hear from Sonya about how book publicity has changed throughout her career, what works and what doesn’t, what she wishes more authors know, and how she’s feeling about the state of the book industry today, especially when it comes to nonfiction history.
Mentioned in this episode:
- Support Drafting the Past on Patreon
- Amanda Ice, Harvard University Press publicist, on Your Words Unleashed
- UNC Press on Instagram
- UNC Press on TikTok
- New York Magazine's 2008 article on whether book publishing would end
- The New York Times, "'Luddite' Teens Don't Want Your Likes", December 2022
Transcript:
Kate Carpenter 0:00
Hi Drafting the Past listeners, I'm your host, Kate Carpenter, and this is a podcast all about the craft of writing history. In most episodes, I interview an author of nonfiction history about their research and writing process. But in today's episode, we get to do something a little different. We're taking a closer look at how authors and presses get the word out about new books, and we're going to do that with an insider's perspective. I'm very excited to be joined in this episode by Sonya Bonczek, the director of publicity and communications for the University of North Carolina Press.
Sonya Bonczek 0:37
Thank you for having me. It's my very first podcast. I'm very excited to be here.
Kate Carpenter 0:41
I have exchanged many emails with Sonya over the past few years whenever I have podcast guests who've published with UNC Press, and I have been impressed at the great publicity work Sonya and her team are doing. So when I thought about who might be able to bring us a publicist's perspective, she was first on my list. I'll let her tell you more about her career path and how she ended up in her current position, and then we'll dive into questions, including a few that were submitted by podcast supporters on Patreon. I was eager to hear from Sonya about how book publicity has changed throughout her career, what works and what doesn't, what she wishes more authors knew, and how she's feeling about the state of the book industry today, especially when it comes to nonfiction history. Here's my conversation with Sonya Bonczek.
Sonya Bonczek 1:27
So I have been in book publishing for almost 20 years now, which is really wild when I say that out loud. I started my career in commercial book publishing. So I worked at Random House, and I worked at Hachette book group in various imprints, which was great. It was really a big crash course in big national book media. I've always been in publicity. And then I I spent a few years outside of book publishing, working in PR for a couple of different startups, and also at a marketing agency. And not for long, because I realized very quickly that, like, I don't want to do PR for, like, real estate agent companies and, you know, random like, business buzzwords and just work on accounts like, I was quickly bored and just like, didn't want to shill that stuff. And I have always loved books, and have always wanted to talk about the books and ideas and stories and history and culture and all of that. So once I moved over into university press world, I started working at Harvard University Press when we lived in Boston, and I fell in love with working with scholars and historians and just folks who are researching things that actually matter and can really help shape public understanding and sometimes public policy. I love being in university press world, and can't imagine not being a book publicist. And I didn't even know book publicist was a thing. Like I think growing up, everybody knows that there's editors and you can go be a publisher. And I think being a book publicist is probably, like, the coolest job you could ever have. And when I think back to young Sonya, always reading and loving like, hust the smell of books and living in libraries, I love that that is my job. So my family relocated to Chapel Hill, North Carolina from Boston a couple of years ago, like right at the start of the pandemic. And I kind of just like, knocked on UNC Press's door. I was still working remotely for Harvard, and I loved UNC Press's list and the books that we published, especially in African American history, and so I just was like, you guys should hire me. And just started conversations. And then the timing really worked out with their publicity director retiring after almost 20 years at UNC Press. So the timing worked out, and that was over five years ago, and so I've been at UNC Press ever since, and can't see myself leaving anytime soon.
Kate Carpenter 3:48
Fantastic. Honestly, this is making me think I have chosen the wrong career, because that sounds fantastic. Tell me what, what does a book publicist do? What does kind of the day in, day out of that job look like?
Sonya Bonczek 4:00
I mean, well, publicity is fun because there's, it's different every day, and like, things can happen, and then, like, my to do list never gets done and I have to focus on something else. But I would say it's really a mix of strategy and writing, pitches, relationship building. There's a lot of different juggling, and like, on any given day we're pitching book media and reviewers and journalists and trying to book podcast interviews and planning events and prepping authors or writing press material. Like on fun days, there's actually meetings we have in person, or when I'm up in New York for sales conferences, or media calls with our seasonal catalogs, where I'm doing in person, media calls and pitches that's always fun, but it's a lot of admissible work, like it is, a lot of emails I live in my emails, a lot of follow ups and a lot of long lead planning, because we're, we're currently just starting our spring, summer 2026 season, but we still have books that just published from the fall season that I'm still actively working on and working with those authors. But then we've already had our big like marketing launch for the fall, winter, 2026 and then soon we'll have meetings to talk about books that will be coming out now next, you know, spring, summer, 2027 so we're just constantly living in the past, in the present, in the future and thinking about our back list, our current list, our front list, so our attention is kind of pulled in all these different directions, but it's fun because I, you know, get to read manuscripts and proposals that come in for books that our editors are trying to acquire, and weigh in on what I think of those proposals and manuscripts and what I think from a marketing and publicity perspective. Then I have a call with an author to talk about, you know, their book coming out and the questions that they have and how we can best work together. Or then I have a meeting with someone who runs programming at a museum or a different venue or a bookstore to talk about our list, and you know, what we have for them and what might work, but it's a lot of emails. It's always making sure I'm responding to any time sensitive emails, especially from media, which we always want to make sure we're getting to. It's a lot of sending out galleys, advanced review copies, a lot of PDFs, uploading a lot of PDFs, and just kind of seeing where the day brings you. And there's always something urgent or time sensitive that kind of ends up in our inboxes that we have to make sure we're focusing on.
Kate Carpenter 6:25
So I have what feels like kind of a basic question, but I'm sure I'm not alone in this confusion, which is, what's the difference between book publicity and book marketing? Or is there a difference?
Sonya Bonczek 6:34
No, I mean, there is. But I'm all about holistic like integration, and because the lines are blurred, I think the simplest way to put it is publicity is earned media, and like what other people are saying about you, about your book, and we're not paying them, so reviews, interviews, op eds, like all this coverage that we can get, and marketing is more focused on paid media. So advertising. And then there's digital marketing, which is social media campaigns and giveaways and email marketing and that type of stuff. But honestly, like the the lines are completely blurred and and my role has evolved a little bit from publicist here, but also taking on comms role and really looking at digital marketing as well as social media, because I think being a publicist. Now, I mean, half my job is on social media, like I'm on social media personally to mostly talk about my books and the work that I do, and then, you know, I'm helping with UNC press's social media and content. And I, you know, because reviews space are shrinking and there's less of that traditional media coverage. There are things we have to do to think outside the box, like a virtual flash panel on an important topic, and trying to kind of organize that that is always, has always been less of like a publicity job. A publicist is really responsible for media. But now I'm thinking of other creative ways too, to kind of sell the book, or to get coverage and attention for the book. So I think everybody is working in tandem. And so like our I am the publicist. I am just one piece of the big marketing puzzle. And we have different folks in our marketing department at UNC press who handle, you know, the advertising and the digital advertising awards and conferences. We have an academic marketing specialist who is submitting the books for awards, making sure that those books are at all the conferences. We have our sales manager who's really focused on having relationships with our sales reps, and then, of course, our bookstore accounts, and is tracking all those sales. But we all have to work together, and I need to understand what they're doing and and they need to kind of understand what I'm doing. And if I have big media planned, or something big happening for my books, I'm making sure that our sales like knows, because our sales reps need to know, so that they can inform the bookstores and the accounts like something big is happening. You want to be stocked up with this book, or that our marketing, marketing team knows that we can lean into that stuff and make more hay with a review or something big happening, whether it's advertising or social media and things like that. So all one big ecosystem.
Kate Carpenter 9:13
That's really helpful to think about, sort of the constellation of people that is working on all these different components. Yeah, I the
Sonya Bonczek 9:19
publicist, kind of ends up being like the conduit to all those questions, because, you know, once the book is written and the manuscript is transmitted, and we're, like, working towards those page proof stages, the publicist is, kind of becomes the main contact for the author and authors to have those questions too. Like, who handles, like, award submissions? I want to make sure my book is, you know, submitted to these following words, and I'm like, Oh, that's my colleague, Anne, but I can, you know, make sure that I'm passing along anything you need, you know, to her, or sharing her info if you want to have a one on one with that. So I'm kind of the conduit and making sure everybody knows what's going on, and answering the author's many questions about all the aspects of marketing
Kate Carpenter 9:59
I am intrigued by. You mentioned about sort of taking on some of that communications and especially digital media role, because I have noticed that UNC press has really stepped up its social media game lately. The Instagram account is full of entertaining content lately, which is super fun, I bet also a lot of work too behind the scenes. Is that, I mean, it seems like you guys really feel like that's a place that's worth putting some more energy into. Yeah, you see a lot of potential there.
Sonya Bonczek 10:27
I mean, I do, I I'm You've caught me at a moment too, where I'm really understanding that how, like, just the content overload and saturation of content, especially now with AI everywhere, and just like slop that you see, and people are just churning out content at insane speeds. And so I, you know, our tiktoks and reels that we do, which are so fun I'm a theater child, and this is, like, one of the most fun parts of my job, too. And it doesn't take us that we try not to spend too much time on the silly videos. We really come up with those quickly in the spur of the moment when we're working in the office and we one or two takes and we're done. But I think all you know, all of that is really good and important, just visibility. I hate to be like, Oh, our brand matters. But I do you know, we have so many authors and scholars following us. And I think it's really nice for them to kind of see the inner workings and to, like, have us weigh in on something, and even if it's just us jumping on a meme or a trend, but we're including a book, you know, or we're showing a book, or we have a book poster in the background. I think all of that is really helpful. So, you know, you can't, you almost can't get away without being online and on social, even though I get the fatigue and the fragmentation, and it's if you caught me a couple years ago, maybe even two years ago, I'd be like, Oh my gosh, every author needs to be on Twitter, right? And they need to be doing Twitter threads. And this is how we get op eds. I always called it from thread to op ed, because I had so many authors who would go on Twitter, and there would be so many journalists out there, and they would do a thread contextualizing something really important that they're expert on, and that was, you know, breaking news at the time, and I would have editors at the Atlantic or even the New York Times email me and say, Oh, this thread. Is this your author? Can they just write this op ed for us? And that was like the glorious Twitter heyday, the beautiful golden golden age. And we really saw pre orders, like we would see an author share something even about their book, and get a ton of engagement, and then we could directly go look at pre orders and see a spike over the weekend, or, like, a couple of days around that tweet. So now, a couple of years later, with everybody with Tiktok and now social media like blue sky threads, just like being on every platform X, like now going viral, or doing, you know, having a tweet or a thread, a post go viral. It's not translating to sales as much because I think people are just inundated now with this content. So I think now it's more about finding your niche content. And we've seen this with some of our own social media, like our tiktoks and our reels. We've seen that when we are focused or doing something a little more niche, that's like, about peer review, like a tick tock about peer review, we're getting way more engagement. Because I think there are so many, you know, professional scholars who follow us who, like, really are interested in that topic. Whereas, you know, if we do something a little more generalized, it's like, okay, maybe that's funny. And, you know, people scroll through. So I think with content saturation, I think it's going to be so important for anyone, publishers, authors promoting books, to get as specific as possible, to like, lean into niche. And that's something I think you do with your podcast. This is not just a podcast to talk to authors about their books, but you're talking about the craft of in the art of writing, and I think that's wonderful. And I think that's like, where niche is, like where to go, and really tailored to knowing who your audience is and what kind of message you're trying to put out there. But I'm glad you watch our social media content, because it really, it's fun. I gotta say, it's super fun to do.
Kate Carpenter 14:19
It's been a while, and you know, you make a you make a good point that, like it's, it seems beneficial for authors and potential authors, because I feel like it makes me feel connected to real life people at UNC press, and not just sort of like the press is a monolithic entity.
Sonya Bonczek 14:31
Yeah, I think that's important. Like, there's a person behind all the online accounts, like, I got to give a shout out to bookshop.org, I don't go on threads that much, but they're killing it on threads. And I think, like, they recently had a post that was like, there's a person behind this account running it, and it was, you know, talking about things going on in Minneapolis and ice and it was just so and I think people really responded and connected to that. And that's rule number one of social media. I tell my authors this, if they're really, if they are on social media or they're even interested, I'm like, it's all about being genuine and being yourself and not getting on there once in a blue moon, and like posting the link to your book and telling people to order it, or trying to kind of sell your sell your book that way, because that just it's not for selling things, that's for sure. So social media is obviously very important, very important, but it's a lot of work, and it's, it's the wild wild west.
Kate Carpenter 15:29
I mean, this, this dovetails, well, with a larger question from a listener who asks, How have the publicity resources of presses changed since you entered the industry? Yeah.
Sonya Bonczek 15:40
I mean, it has changed, I think, because when I started, too, there was just more publicity. There was more print review sections and newspaper editors that you could pitch and have relationships with. And now, I mean, teams are leaner, you know, there's, we have two publicists and a publicity assistant that's including myself here at UNC press. And we published, you know, 140 150 books a year. So, you know, there's, there's just leaner, leaner teams, and there's outlets are fewer. So we're focused on other things, but the job itself is still really expanded enormously, because now we're Felicity is including social media and podcasts. And podcasts are and like, everyone has a podcast, and there's a podcast for every topic and every author and book, and with newsletters and metadata, like, there's so much to do. So, you know, especially University Press teams are very small, but I would say, incredibly nimble. And I think we do a lot with more limited resources. And, of course, don't get me started on like budgets. I mean, we're a non profit, and we're a mission driven publisher, and so sales matter, but we there's something even greater there that I think we all care about, but we still do. You know, need to pay our employees, so it's changed, but I don't know I like I said, I've been in the industry for so long, and it's always felt like a lot, so much, so much to do. And so prioritization and like really focusing on things that matter is important. And our authors are so crucial in the promotion game. I tell every author I get on a zoom with when I first meet them like you, I'm your I'm the publicist here at the University Press. You are your own best publicist, like you are going to be, and I'm going to put you to work, and you have to, it's a full time job, I think, for authors to promote their books, but it's really going to make a difference.
Kate Carpenter 17:35
One of the things I wanted to ask you is, what, what do you wish authors knew about publicity? So that seems like thing number one, right? That they they are the true publicist of their book.
Sonya Bonczek 17:44
Yeah, just that they are their best publicist. And promoting a book is a full time job on top of their actual jobs, yeah, because they need to use their network. And they have networks. They have family, friends, colleagues, people in their corner who are, you know, ready and excited to support them and their books publication. And so it's, it's things I tell my author, like, you know, you have people who are like, I'm gonna buy your book as soon as it comes out, and it's really helpful and important to share information with them. Like, hey, you know, pre orders are really important. They signal a lot to the publisher, to a bookstore, and so, you know, you have people in your corner who are more than happy to pre order a book if they learn, oh, pre orders really matter, rather than kind of waiting for the book to come out. And there's so many things you can encourage people to do, like go on Amazon, even if you're not going to buy your book from Amazon, people shop on there, and people read the reviews, and if you have more of those five star reviews and people leaving them like that helps with that algorithm and discoverability, and I think a lot of authors know this, but when they have personal connections somewhere in the media, at a venue, at a bookstore, it's going to be so much more meaningful if those people and places hear From the author directly, rather than from a publicist, you know, who's again, if I'm working on 60 books, you know, if we're publishing 60 books in one season, we kind of have to think of the list more holistically, because we can't, you know, pitch 60 books to one journalist or 60 books to one bookstore. Not that we would ever do that, or anyone would expect that. But authors who have connections or like, I'll get an email sometimes, like, oh, maybe we can, you know, can you pitch this outlet or this person I was on the show, like, two years ago, and I'm like, Okay, you have that contact. You have the producer in your inbox. And the best way to do this is for you to email them and you can copy me in, because I'm more than happy to follow up, to send marketing materials, to send a review copy, to share additional information, but you're the relation like they know you they've had you on. And so it's going to be much more bespoke and meaningful if you put together a nice email that's like, hey, I really enjoyed being on your show. I have a new book coming out. I thought this. This would be, you know, this topic would be of interest. Here's why I'm copying. And, you know, my book publicist, she can get you a review copy, you know, page proofs immediately, and that's always going to be the most helpful and the best collaboration. And so I put my authors to work. I'm like, No, you're emailing them. And I like to share my kind of, you know, my pitch list. It'll be like a shared Google, you know, spreadsheet of like, here are my contacts, and here are the people I'm pitching, and here's people I've met in person with, or maybe have relationships with. And then I'm like, this is, please go in there and add in your contacts, or make a note if you know this person, and it's better if they hear from you, maybe. So it really, again, it's all collaboration. But I think authors have all of the tools at their fingertips, because I don't have a special like in 2026 so much so many journalists and editors and reviewers. You can find their email easily, like you can find you know what they are covering, what their beat is. They have their own websites. You can find most of that information, and I think it's going to be so helpful for an author, if they're if they want to see their book covered or featured in a specific outlet, that they are very familiar with, that outlet, that they read that magazine, that they know who they're pitching there, and that the book kind of fits. And why reaching out to media from with the author, doing that and taking the lead a little bit where it makes sense. I see just so much more ROI on that than publicist, like sending more general kind of pitch and there, there are also, you know, a lot of like opinions editors, when we're trying to pitch op eds that just want to hear directly from the author, rather than kind of get a pitch from a publicist and go back and forth and op eds, is a whole nother topic that I could go on and on about, but, yeah, I think those are that's the most like, you are so capable, and like, there's so much promotion and work that you can do, but it is a lot of work. It is a lot of work. I get that.
Kate Carpenter 21:58
So I have another listener question that I suspect they would like me to ask right at this moment, which is, what advice do you have then, for authors who struggle with the idea of self promotion that that does not come naturally to them?
Sonya Bonczek 22:10
Well, then not coming naturally to them, I would just reframe that, because I'm assuming they kind of were like, Oh, I don't want the attention on me, and I'm not trying to promote myself, but I you have to think of it as, like, your ideas matter, and your book matters. And the scholarship that you are pushing and trying to get out there is really important, and it contribute, you know, your book is contributing something really meaningful, and so talking about it is really part of that work. So you have to, kind of, you have to do that, you know, going back to social media, like, I never push my authors if they don't do social media, there's, you don't need to make a blue sky account and go on there and try to, like, post about your book that's not going to go anywhere. And, you know, authors have different there are many authors I work with who have no social media presence, whose books do beautifully, who have their own networks, who are being invited to conferences, who are peer reviewing other scholars work, who are blurbing other books, who have connections that are in there, using them and that pays off tremendously, and they don't need to be on social. It's really about what you want to get out of it, and if you do have time, and like, I just had a call with an author who's like, I'm actually going to be on leave this semester when my book comes out, so I can focus on, like, doing the threads on blue sky, and, you know, because she has a big platform there, and like, you know, making sure that I'm reaching out to all my contacts, and that I'm setting up even just like, drinks with someone who has a someone who has a connection to this person for, you know, at the New York Times, and that is, you know, beautiful. And I totally understand that that's not possible for every author and scholar, professor who's like, has a, you know, full load that semester and many, many obligations and duties. So, you know, do as little as you can, as much as you can, but I would say if you can make it at least a part time job, you know, like six months before your book is coming out, and not, not when your book is out, and then being like, Okay, I'm here, like, I'm ready to come, you know, do an event, or write an op ed or do a post about my book like that. You know, it has the work has to start early. The best way to do that is kind of collaborating with your publicist. I'm like, okay, what can I be doing on my end? Which is great. And a lot of authors ask me that, and I'm always happy to tell them, Oh, why. There's a lot you can do.
Kate Carpenter 24:32
Are there, you know, say, say I am an author or a potential author who doesn't immediately have a book coming out, but I know I want to be sort of a well rounded author when it comes to be that time, are there skills that you wish authors would sort of work to develop or build up before they are in the position to do publicity?
Sonya Bonczek 24:49
Probably the biggest skill would be translation, being able to clearly talk about your book. We joke about this all the time on our socials, too. Know about how marketing is always trying to just like, in two or three sentence the key selling points after, like, a book that's like 10 years of research and has so many nuances and elements to it, and we're just trying to simplify it and not dumb it down, but really just the clarity. Because, especially with media, it's about getting your foot in the door, and it's about connecting the dots to things happening now, using your scholarship to explain how we got to this moment, or things like that. It's really important to clarify. And, you know, I see this a lot because we ask on our marketing questionnaire authors, you know, we ask, what are the talking points, or like, what are the three most important parts of your book. And you know, answers vary, and sometimes they get into the weeds, and you have to just kind of pull that stuff out. So I think, and I ask editors this when they're pitching books, or we're launching a book, or we're talking about, I'm like, Okay, what's the, what's the two sentence pitch, like, why this book matters, why it's important. Or, like, what significant scholarship is it bringing to the table? And so I think authors could really work on how they talk about their books to public. My really good friend Amanda ice, she's a publicist at Harvard University Press who did a podcast like this,
Speaker 1 26:16
and she, I think, said it best
Sonya Bonczek 26:20
where she said, I stole this from her because I was like, I've never heard that. She's like, she tells her authors, imagine you're teaching, like, 18 year olds. You're teaching a high school class, and you want to explain some convoluted method or scholarship, and you want them to be engaged and interested. Like, how would you talk about it? And to kind of like, keep that, you know, perspective in mind when you're trying to talk about your book or pitch your book or do an interview or podcast interview, is like, talk in those kind of terms, of like, what would like some really, you know, smart, eager, interested, like, 18 year olds, like, what would they want to know and what would could you say that would really hook them? And I thought that was really smart way to put it.
Kate Carpenter 27:03
I want to do a little myth busting. Maybe. I'm curious, are there, are there things that people think sell a lot of books in terms of publicity or marketing that actually are not particularly effective?
Sonya Bonczek 27:15
Yeah, I mean, I don't even know what sells books these days, because it takes a lot to sell a book. You have to see something many times. You know, just as consumers who shop like it is so hard to actually, like, get you to press that Buy button. And it definitely doesn't come from like, seeing, you know, one review, or seeing like an ad. Ads don't work at all. But that's also another topic. So I think everyone like, you know, the last time, every time I buy a book or start reading a book for pleasure, it's always because I have a friend who's recommended it and, like, maybe it's because I've seen a lot of buzz about the book, and I've already seen different reviews and coverage, but I won't buy it until I like friends and I start talking about it or I'm like, Oh, this is right up my alley, but it's mostly friends. I'd say almost, like 99% is people I know who are reading it or have read it. So word of mouth is so unbelievably important. But yeah, I think like ads QR codes, like we're asked to make a lot of graphics with a QR code and like that we go to actually check, like, how many people have scanned it's like, virtually zero. So I think just even knowing that, like, book reviews don't move sales, like even big ones in the New York Times. And this is, of course, why we see, like the Washington Post book world folding and just the review space shrinking so much is like they just are. It's subscription fatigue is real, like you have to, you know, they're behind a paywall, and for great reason, because, you know, journalists are not paid well, and you know writers should be paid for their work, but I think people generally are not reading the reviews as much. So I think just knowing that it takes how how hard it is to sell a book, especially to someone you don't know, which is like, why advertising doesn't work. Selling a book to someone you do know, is so much easier, and that's why we're like, pushing, Hey, okay, you have a network on Facebook, like, you have a bunch of family and friends and people who follow you, like, then that's your place. And you post about your book, and you have 300 responses saying, like, this is so exciting, I'm gonna buy your book. That's gonna work. Those are people that know you or like, you know are your cousin's best friend and people who know of you, and it's so much easier to sell a book that way. But you know, it takes, gosh, it takes so much to sell a book. And that's what we try to focus on, is like, that's why, like, we're booking events. We're trying to get the op eds published. We're trying to get as many podcast interviews, especially to like, your niche audience, and think about like, who is your audience? And from working in trade back in the day, like, even back then, when we had the Daily Show with Jon Stewart and we had Stephen Colbert, you know, not Stephen Colbert, we had David Letterman. And for some you know, our big celebrity authors were writing, you know, publishing their autobiographies. Even back then, it was like. Very early on, taught to me Dave Letterman doesn't sell books The Daily Show Jon Stewart does because the audience is watching those shows. So people are watching late night. They're not necessarily people who are then need to go buy whatever book is being promoted, unless they're huge fans of a celebrity, right? Whereas the Daily Show is kind of a different audience, and they are more book buyers and non fiction readers, and so you're going to sell more copies that way. But we don't say no to Dave Letterman, because it's David Letterman, right? It's broadcast, and all of that is important for visibility and discoverability and just remembering it takes a lot to get that that book sale. So I've had authors kind of disappointed when they've had New York Times, or the guardian, or, like, a bunch of op eds running or media coverage kind of happening, which is all terrific, and then they're like, Okay, where are the orders? Or how many books did we sell? And we can kind of go look, and it's like, Oh, there's one pre order at the time. And that happens. It's common now, because books are a luxury item, like, they're expensive, especially academic books, especially books published by University Press books, it is. It's a lot to, you know, buy a book that's 3295 it's a lot. So I tell my academic authors too, and like, they know this, like, course, adoption is so important, library sales is so important. So there's that whole other aspect of book publicity that we need to focus on too.
Kate Carpenter 31:21
I want to switch gears a little, because this is a writing podcast. I want to talk about writing in your job, because it strikes me that writing is a lot of your job, whether it's in the form of emails or copy that will be part of, I don't know. Do you write press releases still? You know they go out? Yeah, out to people. How do you approach that kind of writing? What does your writing process look like?
Sonya Bonczek 31:42
Well, I like to just joke that those who can't write become book publicist. No, I love the writing aspect of my job, and I love it even more because I get to do I guess it's more of the editing that I really love, because I get to take catalog and cover copy and, you know, the author's words, and kind of rearrange them, so it is a lot of workshopping that I like to do, but I do we publicists are writing constantly, not just emails, but we are writing pitches, and we're writing talking points, especially for like broadcast or when I'm pitching NPR or even a podcast, I try to do some bullet points, or try to Say, like in an interview, here's what can be discussed, and try to make that as as concise and specific as possible. And really answering that question all all the time. I'm thinking when I'm writing a pitch is like, why does this matter right now? So I think a lot of my job in writing is trying to translate more of the complex scholarship into something that's kind of urgent and clear for a journalist or producer. So I'm not even trying to use language and flowy language, and I'm really trying to be blunt and candid and specific and not hyperbolic at all, and and I don't try to say this fantastic, amazing scholarship is groundbreaking, and, you know, but really trying to connect the dots to why, why a reporter would be interested in not just this book, but outside of the book, like the themes here, or how this relates to what they're covering and what their readers are interested in. But we write a lot. But again, you know, I the safety and the knowledge of knowing that my writing is not being published like, my pitches and emails, hopefully are not being published or broadcast anywhere. But we do publicists also, and I weigh in on like, the cover copy, and I will look at taglines and key selling points and other things that are going out to the public, and from a marketing perspective of like, is this the best tagline or like? Are we starting this off strong and really hitting, like, the most important parts of why we're publishing this book? So that's fun.
Kate Carpenter 33:46
Do you ever get books that are hard to sell? Yes, I did not prepare you for this question. No.
Sonya Bonczek 33:53
I mean, I mean, like, be more specific, because, like I said, All books are hard to sell. You know it lots of books are hard to sell, but I don't, I don't Okay. So we can talk about, like the books that we designate as academic books, like for other professionals and scholars, and then what we kind of designate as trade books, and then we even have the in between. So you know, for our trade books, we are picturing those books as like a little bit more accessibly written, and books that we think are really important topic, or the author has a platform, but again, accessibly written, and where we think we could get more mainstream attention for it, that bookstores would want to carry it in their stores. Because in 2026 like there are many university press books and scholarly books and trade books that are the main channel is Amazon and thank God for bookshop.org and other places. But bookstores, independent bookstores, are also struggling, and so they're not carrying as much stock. And if you ever walk into a bookshop like I like to go into a bookstore and see how people. Shop, and what they're picking up and putting back down, and what they like eventually go, you know, to the register with and actually purchase. And it is so hard, it is so hard to, you know, sell books. So anyways, for our trade, like we, you know, are prioritizing and thinking about our whole catalog. And of course, you know, the front list books where we are hoping the print run is larger, or we do think that there is a bigger audience for it and potentially more sales. We're trying to focus on those, but that, like, I will tell you, there are academic books, by like, first time, books that do incredibly well. Because, again, I think, like those authors and those they're focused on what sells and what works, and so much of that is course adoption and it being taught. And it's not a flash in the pan. It can happen. It takes time. It's slower, where a couple of years later, like, this is the book that's on everybody's syllabus, and is, you know, and that's hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of sales, you know, that's a lot of sales, or focusing on libraries and other places like that. So sorry. Your original question of, like, Are there books that don't sell? There's always like, book publishing is like baseball, in my opinion, where sometimes you're just like, I don't know what the heck's gonna have. You can't predict a book that's going to take off, and then sometimes in like, seventh inning, there's a home run all of a sudden, and everyone's scrambling to be like what I have gotten so many emails from The New Yorker, Washington Post, the New York Times, asking for a review copy of a scholarly book that, like, we had the hat at the back of the catalog that I never Thought national media would be interested in and they're like, We need a review copy of this, whether they're reviewing it or it fits into some coverage. And I'm like, What? What? What? And that's what publicists are good at, is pivoting. We kind of learn very early on in the season, when we have our catalog and we blast it to media, and we go to sales conference, and we go to pitches, and we start to get, kind of get that information out. We start to get review copy requests and interest, and start hearing pretty quickly. And so we kind of learn early on, like we'll start to get attention, or, like, everybody's asking for a book, and we're like, oh, okay, this is, like the book. We start to kind of hear that feedback early and, you know, we have to kind of make sure we're putting our resources to to those books as well. I don't know. I mean, I think if anyone knew what sold and what didn't sell, like commercial publishers don't know, like, nobody knows anymore, what book is going to get the attention, what book is going to break out, which one's going to be the dark horse? There are plenty of trade books that we have paid like a good advance to, and have put in all the resources, and it's the first page of the catalog, and then doing a post mortem months later, it's like we didn't get that review coverage we wanted. There's not as much review coverage space, but like we didn't, or even if we did, it didn't translate to sales. It doesn't always translate. So we're always surprised, sometimes pleasantly, many times not very pleasantly surprised with kind of how books do and what we can predict. But you know, we everybody's doing their best when we're looking at new projects and we're thinking about potential for selling that book, it's always a bit of a gamble, but we do what we can to, kind of like try to make some predictions and make sure we're doing everything we can for all of our books.
Kate Carpenter 38:29
I want to go back to something you said earlier. You sort of mentioned that op eds are kind of a whole different beast, because a listener did say that she actually didn't even know how to frame it as a question, but that she felt sort of confused about like op eds and excerpts and reported pieces, and how that all even relates to books and book marketing and book publicity? Yeah, how do you think about those things?
Sonya Bonczek 38:51
Oh, yes. Well, I'll just start with op eds. Op eds a lot of authors, especially like first time authors, scholarly authors, kind of confuse op eds with book essays. So they think they can just kind of write, you know, 1000 words, maybe sometimes more about kind of like the book and the argument. And there are plenty of places that are looking for longer pieces, that are more analytical, that are kind of book essays. And then there's op eds, which is a whole different beast, right? You need, like breaking news. You need something that's happening right now that's capturing everyone's attention. And then you need a strong argument. And usually, if you want to get into the New York Times one, you have to kind of know how to write for places like that, but you have to be controversial. They want clicks. They want comments that are arguing with each other, and they want people sharing those op eds and getting upset and getting angry. So writing op eds is a very quick, quick turnaround, and there is certainly an art to writing op eds most of the time, I'll get it. Op ed draft, and I'm like, you have to flip this completely, like, your whole argument and everything that's important and enlightening here and controversial is at the bottom of your piece, and you're kind of starting out with all the historical background and things that like you can't do, people are immediately like, eyes are going to glaze over, and it's too long. It has to be, like, 800 words if you're trying to do a quick op ed. I've also have authors like saying, oh, you know, yeah, there's this breaking news. I can maybe write this piece this weekend. And I'm like, it's Wednesday. You like, if you can't write the piece, and then in this hour, you know, like, if you can't write it now, or at least have the pitch and start doing outreach. Like, there it's it. You know, the headlines and the news cycle now is barely 24 hours, so op eds is quick. It's of the moment something happens and you jump on it. And sometimes I work with authors at the beginning of the season, or, you know, their book will be coming out a couple months, and I'm like, All right, maybe your book is time to Presidents Day. So maybe just have, like, a framework, like have an op ed kind of put together, whether you have kind of written it out, and then you can go back when there's breaking news and plug things in. And this just recently happened very recently, with an author who kind of had, had already pitched something to an outlet kind of was accepted. And they're like, All right, let's work on this. And time it to President's Day, and then there was breaking news, you know, in January and and he jumped on it, and was like, hey, actually, this just happened, and I can, like, rework this op ed draft right now to make sure we're talking about this. And that was, like, accepted immediately. And that's how you have to do it. And op eds too, like, it has changed so much now if you're kind of coming to your publicist to be like, I would like to have an op ed somewhere. And I'm always like, Okay, what? What op ed like? What is, what's happening right now that you're that you need to urgently write on or speak to you have to, like, wait for the moment. And then it is actually important that authors pitch themselves. And I and I understand it like legacy outlets. It's like, who? Who's, you know, an op ed reporter that you can pitch at New York Times, like, I have some contacts, but they're so, I mean, it's just so incredibly hard to get into the New York Times, and so going back and forth on like a piece to edit it to perfection, like you're kind of losing time. And unfortunately, places like New York Times, Washington Post, Wall Street Journal and and those outlets like, they have their own Rolodex of, like, experts and people they go to right? They have their own columnists and their own op ed writers. So it's really hard to do that, and I find the authors who are most successful are the ones who jump on things immediately, who start work their way up, like starting with smaller places, and especially if the authors have a topic that's local to a specific city, and then focusing on that newspaper and writing an editorial op ed, there is a great way to go. And like, again, kind of what I said earlier about like, all these contacts, information and emails is available online. So those are op eds. And again, like I said, there's really an art to them. There's really an art to writing an op ed. And so I want to kind of see that from authors. So I'm not saying it can't be done. And I've had plenty of like first time authors who have successfully been able to pitch right and get an op ed published. And again, that doesn't necessarily translate to sales. People will read an op ed. It shouldn't be about your book, right? Your book's not going to be mentioned in it. There are some op eds in places like the conversation, where you can kind of get sneak that in and say, like in my book, or in other outlets, but most of the time, the point is to get it into your bind line and to set the author up as an expert on this topic, and someone who, you know has a really important perspective and understands the history, etc. So that's kind of op eds. And then, you know reviews, is reviews where someone is reviewing your book and talking about, if it's good, if it's bad, what they liked, why it's important. And then there's more features, Q and A's that we try to get published, where we actually have a reporter, journalist, interview the author about the book, or about topics around the book, and and then there's other type of coverage, and then there's other things authors can do, and then even doing like an NPR hit, where you are just kind of an expert, you know, or someone that they go to for a segment, and it's a 32nd clip that you're in and part of a bigger story, they're not going to mention your book. Maybe, like in we are always screaming and cheering when an author does something like that, and you get the book in Right? Or, like, you get in Jenny schussler's column in the New York Times, and she actually links to the book, you know, because that's not ever guaranteed, and many times it's not included. And when it is, you're like, Yes, this is amazing. This is wonderful visibility. Does that answer the question? Yeah.
Kate Carpenter 44:44
I mean, I think so. It like, I said, she said she didn't even know how to phrase this question exactly. Yeah.
Sonya Bonczek 44:49
I think it's really the like op ed. Like the Op Ed thing, you know, is hard because, again, it's not a book essay, and there's such an art to it. And I've learned a lot along the way of like. Working with authors to workshop op eds, to pitch them, but they are so fast, and I will still, like, send information, or like, I'll have a blue sky thread kind of go viral, and there's some breaking news, and I'll send it to an op ed editor. And most, you know, I think the last time I did that, they were like, you know, I don't think we can make this work right now, but let's keep in touch about this book, and it's a book that's coming out in the fall, and that's like best case scenario, because now you're on that op ed editors radar, and they know you have a book on this topic, and so next time there's breaking news, they might remember and be like, oh, can your author write on this? And that's what I try to do, is just keep some of those relationships alive, since I can't pitch every op ed of every author and but I really think our authors, for me a sign when an author is like, can I write an op ed, and can you pitch it? I'm like, Okay, I don't know if this is going to work, because authors need to kind of do that work, like they need to jump on it, because it could be 8pm at night and something could happen. And if they're really interested in getting op ed published, they need to jump on that moment and start writing a pitch, pitching it out, and like, social mediaing it. Because I still, I think even today, I got an email CC it on an email from an author who heard from a reporter who was like, Oh, I really been enjoying your blue sky threads on this topic. And like, maybe we could work out like an interview for this newspaper. So there are still reporters on social media who are like, scouring for content and seeing things and seeing people engaging, and are using that to help with coverage.
Kate Carpenter 46:35
So I mean, I guess that actually kind of kind of leads to a bigger picture question. It may be a depressing one, but how are you feeling about the state of sort of the book universe today? You know, we've mentioned the cuts to all of the review sections, the sort of decentralization of social media. A lot of people seem to be really anxious, especially about non fiction. That seems to be hitting really hard there. How do you feel about all of that?
Sonya Bonczek 46:59
Well, I think people have been predicting, like, the end of book publishing forever. I mean, when I started in book publishing in 2007 I think later that year, there was a New York magazine cover story. I'll never forget it. And like the cover, the headline was, Is this the end of book publishing? It was basically about the death of book publishing. Now this is almost 20 years ago, and the best part of that is, like the author of that piece, Boris Kate, he is still deeply embedded in the book world. Now, like he's actually the books editor at The Atlantic, and before that, he was books editor at LA Times. And like he's still writing about books and getting books out there and getting that coverage. And I think a lot of things in that article from a million years ago are like the same things we're talking about now. And it was like the big publishers conglomerating and publishing is always in crisis. Like every other newsletter or something I see about book publishing is like, we're in crisis. Books aren't selling. Nobody's reading anymore. No one has the attention spans. And I understand all that and see it, but I really believe in books and like print books, because then I was around when the Kindle came out and Amazon started blowing up, and people were like, oh, they'll never be print books again. Everybody's going to be buying ebooks and reading on their digital devices. And I'm like, what are people going to put on their bookshelves? Like there's and now we see year, many years later, and to this day, like, print still outsells the E version. And I mean, don't get us wrong, we sell a lot of E books, and I I don't read them. I can't read on a Kindle. I've tried, and I know it's convenient and people love it, but I do love holding a physical book. And you've seen now with, like, everybody getting into romanticity and these genres and and romantic like fantasy, and you see, like, the amazing additions, like the deckled edges, the silver like these gorgeous I just read the loneliness of Sonia and sunny, and it was, I mean, it's a huge book. It's like 700 pages, but it is so unbelievably beautiful to hold. Like, there's just something so magical about those books. I just, I do want to be realistic, but I also really just believe in books and people reading and so, like, when people ask, are people reading less, in general, and less and like, not reading fiction or nonfiction? I mean, I don't think so. Like, I think the people who love nonfiction are always going to read nonfiction, and I think the challenge now is more about attention. Like, again, content overload, competition is always a problem. And, like, the bar for compelling storytelling and writing is really high, but everything begins with a book. Like, I'm dying to go see Wuthering Heights, and I, you know, I read all the controversies there too, and it's not a great adaptation. I really want to see it. Or, like, I dying to see Hamnet because I read the book. Everything starts with a book, like, heated rivalry blowing up right on HBO. Like, incredible. But, like, I. Everything starts with a book. And I say that all the time, and I love working in books like for that reason. And I've seen like, commentary lately of like, oh, book publishers used to be like, the creators of culture, right? And they, you know, and now kind of saying, but now they're just scrambling to keep up. And things blow up on Tiktok or wherever, and then they try to, like, make the books that fit into that moment. And I don't think that's true. I really don't think that's true. So I just again, like, things are scary, especially with AI, and like, how that's changing industries, and not just like the swap out there, but when I think of being a book published, I'm like, am I always going to have a job? Like, will there always be a need for someone to, like, publicize if we don't have anywhere reviewing books, but I don't think so. Like, our jobs is to connect the authors in the books, like, not directly with the readers, although that's what we try to do through social media and other direct marketing. But like, to the bookstores and the accountant, the people who then sell to the readers. But like, we there's always got to be someone connecting that to that, and like sending the book copies out there, right? Like sending a review copy or a PDF. So I don't know, I don't plan to leave the book industry, and I'll be very curious to see what it's a little terrifying, but I'm very curious to see what that looks like in another 20 years. You know, if I'm still director of publicity at UNC press in another 20 years, like, what is my day to day job going to look like? And but I just, I don't think people are going to stop reading books, physical books, ebooks. I don't think they will. And, you know, everything cycles in and out. And you see now, like, I get so much hope from like, the kids, the kids who are profiled in the New York Times who have, like, said no to social, not just social, but cell phones. And they're like, going back to the, you know, old school landlines. So I'm hopeful that at some point the culture again will shift, and people will just get so tired of doom scrolling and get back to reading. So I don't know I want to be realistic about all the things, but I like I'll never not believe in books.
Kate Carpenter 52:10
I love that note to end on Sonya Bonczek, thanks so much for joining me on Drafting the Past. Thank you for revealing the secrets of book publicity for listeners.
Sonya Bonczek 52:19
Thank you for having me this was so fun.
Kate Carpenter 52:22
Thanks again to Sonya Bonczek for joining us for this episode of Drafting the Past, and thanks to you for listening. I hope you got as much out of this one as I did. If you think another writer friend might be interested in learning more about the publicity side of book publishing, text them a link to the episode. And as always, find show notes in the transcript at draftingthepast.com. You can also email me, Kate at drafting the past.com to let me know what you thought about the episode and what you'd like to hear in the future. And remember that before any book publicity can happen, friends don't let friends write boring history.
